Choice is not a right!

You brought many "social issues" and then seemed to lamblast particularly Christians for wanting there to be a moral standard. To continue to follow your argument logically would mean that no one (let's put christians on the side burner here for a moment)..NO ONE should in any way shape or form impose their will, convictions, or values/morals on anyone else.

Kind of a nebulous, floating on the clouds I'm OK, You're OK - go ahead, do what ever pleases you...it's your choice. If you seriously looked throughout history you know that mankind has "been there; done that". It is called Anarchy! If your response then would be not to propose anarchy then consider that any rule or law that is instituted by "some one" will always take away or impede someone else's choice.

By their very essence laws as we know them are a moral code. i.e. If I sideswipe your car, morally ergo legally, I should make some restitiution to you for the damage of your car. If John Doe decides that he can't stand his neighbor and in a moment of anger shoots him dead, morally/legally, his restitution now becomes a matter not only for the family of the neighbor but it's impact is felt on society and it has the right to exact restitution.

Since we haven't a dollar value societally on life restitution will be a penalization instead of monetary. The family may receive money damages but not society; for then the wealthy will never really suffer the consequences of their actions and the poor always would.

A fair society values all it's members as valuable and equal...in both the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution. (you may prefer not to read the Declaration since it clearly states that all men are created equal and that equality/value comes from God). If as it also states we are born with certain Inalienable rights endowed by Our Creator of the Right to Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness.

Let's start with Life, without life you cannot enjoy the other Inalienable rights bestowed upon you by God of Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness. What therefore is life, when does it begin or end? If we stay away from religious or philosophical arguments we will see that Life according to every legitimate medical, scientific and biological premise begins at conception.

Is there a time after conception when what has been conceived is not living and growing? No, according to science after conception life is a continuim with no interruptions or breaks...there is no moment in time where one might say this "entity" is not alive..except if it is dead. To end abruptly is the definition of abortion. So it will be argued you must end the life of the conceived child (I say child because we are speaking of humans and humans give birth to children).

How then will on the other end of life will we determine if the person is dead? According to medicine we have adopted "brain death" or only activity in the brain stem. Which, do not be deceived, the determination of is eeg. , cold water in ears and dilation. People have recovereed from "brain death" awoken and walked out of the hospital. I can only, assuming the best, believe that you would only advocate the killing of people who are brain dead. Mostly, because that and any other argument is a slippery slope of making a determination(based on that nebulous "some one"else)on the value of human life. Consider in the US...are the elderly cherished and respected?

Mentally handicapped and/or the physically challenged are they important and valuable members of society? Or the person struggling with a deadly disease, where should their hope come from..death? There was a time these people were considered special and they in turn, even in their weakness, brought out the best in people and that wonderful quality of "humanity". Now instead the tables are turned and instead the expediant and lethal answer is that of "choice".

Can you begin to see that these alternatives,"choices", options are the exact thing we were given a free will and a wonderful democracy to oppose. Is anyone so naive to believe that they will be the one "Choosing to die" once that floodgate opens?

What then do you consider the basis of society? Social Studies 101 states that families are the basis of society. Therefore a government designed to govern and legislate over that society would protect the society from anything that would cause it's breakdown or demise. This includes every form of either self or societally destructive behavior. Can one legislate behaviors? Of course, it is illegal for you to use illegal drugs, commit random violence even neglect your children. It's that morality dilemna again...it will be someone's morality like it or not. So here I will bring Christianity off the back burner and say unequivocably that Christians have been belittled, intimidated and discriminated against in the political/legislative/public service arena.

Christians whether your history books told you so or not DID play the PRIMARY ROLE in developing the foundation and charting the waters for this nation. Look in the Constitution and find for me the words "Seperation of Church and State". "There shall be no establishment of a state religion"....long ways off from seperation it meant there would be no little vatican or westminster abbey in the heart of Washington DC that controlled which church or faith you belonged to and had all the power.

The one and only place will you find the "seperation clause" is in a letter written by Thomas Jefferson (not even in the US at the writing of the Constitution) to assuage and comfort a Baptist minister that he would quite able to practice his religion and be involved in public service. etc.and not be persecuted for not belonging to the "right" church. The Declaration of Independance and the Constitution were not written by persecuted religious refugees but by Fourth generation Colonists who felt America was their home! Yet 52 out of the 55 delegates to the Constitutional Congress were active members in their very diverse churches.

Christians bowed out for a long time, close to 55 years, from the political arena. It is long time overdue that all the people of conviction enter once again the debate of issues in the town square and let their voice be heard. We needn't be ashamed of the gospel, the name of Jesus Christ or our beliefs in Him as Savior and Lord. His Command was to be a city on a hill and light shining brightly in this world! The very essence of being The Salt of the Earth is to be active and involved to stay corruption and decay. One of those areas is in Public Service.

Therefore, people have choices all the time. The freedom of choice concerning the ownership of people was a political issue which legislation had been written that was challenged all the way to the Supreme Court. Today slavery is NOT A CHOICE!

Is that a bad thing because according to your argument shouldn't have all the Christians just lived their lives right and let men women and children get beaten, multilated, raped and killed because after all didn't those men have free will like you and I to do what they want no matter how much we might disagree??!!! NO! Some issues are so fundamental, so basic and so very close to the heart of God that WE as His Children are not all the luxury of apathetically make excuses for our own inaction.

The abolition movement was in most part run by Christians who were willing to get involved and see a change made! It took over 200 years from colonial times to a bloody civil war and all those other issues thrown in to abolish slavery. THE CHOICE TO OWN SLAVES Was Legislated Against and Slave Owner's Free Will in the Matter was NOT Honored.

I thank God that I live in America. I certainly don't believe that the world will come to know Christ because of any world government. I do believe however that I am to make a difference in whatever way possible for my life and not cave in to political pundits and rhetoric which only purpose could be to dissuade myself and others of faith, whatever faith that might be, from adding our voices to the public debate over serious issues that affect us all.

Your answer seems to me to read like this " I have no biblical scriptures to back up my support of abortion or assisted suicide. I don't think there is a mandate to "legislate" against "personal choices to kill"- only murder as defined by the law at the time" Kelly, I dealt on many levels even to the point of suggesting the subject line be changed to "Moral ramification of Legislation". Sadly, although you state you are a Christian you neither defend your beliefs or "premises" from a Christian/biblical viewpoint nor even adhere to the standards set forth by Judeo-Christian ethics. You do not deal in moral absolutes yet God does. You cannot defend biblically your "positions" on abortion, euthansia and switch the subject each time to "legislating choices". Yet clearly all laws are the legislation of some form of morality. As a Christian the fact remains that I am under obligation to know what God's position is on serious issues and to LIVE BY HIS STANDARD NOT THE WORLD'S. So Kelly your definitions of killing vs. murdering would ultimately blow holes the size that a tank could drive through since God is clearly opposed to the killing of innocent people, the shedding of innocent blood and the death of all people is His jurisdiction. "Whosoever then relaxes one of the least of these ccommandments and teaches men so, shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven." Matthew 5:19 Your advocation of abortion and suicide being just another "choice" in a life of choices makes as much sense to millions as saying remove all the laws against murder, manslaughter, battery, etc..since it is but a choice in a life of choices. Didn't God who gave His life for you give us the "choice" to murder/assault/maim another?? Why should I oppose that "choice"?
I will be posting scriptures that clearly show God's mind on the value of life and His prospective of life issues regardless of the use of the terms abortion or suicide. Although you completely ingnored the fact the suicide is mentioned a few times and never positively.

In regard to Christians role and obligation in society Matthew 5:13-14---You are the salt of the earth; but if the salt has become tasteless, how will it be made salty again? It is good for nothing anymore, except to be thrown out and trampled under foot by men. You are the light of the world. A city set on a hill cannot be hidden. Neither do people light a lamp and put it under a bowl. Instead they put it on its stand, and it gives light to everyone in the house. In the same way, let your light shine before men, that they may see your good deeds and praise your Father in heaven.
Salt in reference here and Mark 9 and Luke 14 all refer not specifically a spice=taste but the preserving and sanctifying action---keeping from corruption and decay---should be the marks of a Christian upon their community . Light as reflected throughout scripture brings truth and exposes lies, corruption and evil.

Proverbs 24:11-12 says "Deliver those who are drawn toward death, and hold back those who stumbling to the slaughter. If you say, "surely we did not know this," Does not He who weighs the hearts consider it? He who keeps your soul, does He not know it? And will He not render to each man according to his deeds?"

"There is a way that seems right to a man, but its end is the way of death. Proverbs 14:12

"Woe to him who quarrels with his Maker, to him who is but a potsherd among the potsherd on the ground. Does the clay say to the potter, "What are you making?"...Woe to him who says to his father "What have you begotten?" or to his mother, "What have you brought forth?" This is what the Lord says--the Holy One of Israel, and its Maker: Concerning things to come, do you question me about my children, or give me orders about the work of my hands? Isaiah 45:9-11

Behold, Children are a gift of the Lord; the fruit of the womb a reward. Psalm 127:3 NOTE:Scripture never says anything but the positive concerning the conception of children!! Behold, all souls are mine; the soul of the father as well as the soul of the son is Mine Ezekiel 18:4

Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and you are not your own? For you have been bought with a price: Therefore glorify God in your body. 1Cor.6:19

Man's destruction of God's handiwork is a grievious violation against all that Christ obtained on the cross and rose victoriously to render unto us.
In the history of mankind, recorded history reflects that God-loving and reverencing people held this same high regard for life. In a democracy that regard for all human life is reflected in legislation which protects and cherishes life. It is illegal for me to harm another individual and it is illegal for me to harm myself. This is a reflection of the value we place on human life. That is the issue for the millions of Americans who oppose killing unborn children and forcing doctors to kill the handicapped and ill. It is the inherant belief that all human life is valuable from conception to natural death.


Bye and I hope to hear from you very soon! I hope all of your dreams come true!

Sincerely,

PS "The value of your life can only be judged by the good you do for other folks"